 1138 - Yes, date unknown
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| Name |
Maud De Mandeville |
| Birth |
1138 |
Costow, Wiltshire, England  |
| Gender |
Female |
| Death |
Yes, date unknown |
| Person ID |
I70867 |
Cecilie Family |
| Last Modified |
2 Mar 2009 |
| Family 1 |
Sir Hugh De Boclande, b. Abt 1130, Buckland, Faringdon, Berkshire, England d. Aft 1176 (Age 47 years) |
| Marriage |
Abt 1154 |
Pleshey, Essex, England |
| Family ID |
F31039 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
| Last Modified |
2 Mar 2009 |
| Family 2 |
Piers De Lutegareshale, b. Abt 1134, Cherhill, Wiltshire, England d. Aft 8 May 1198, Pleshey, Essex, England (Age 64 years) |
| Marriage |
Abt 1160 |
1st Husband [1] |
| Children |
| | 1. Earl Geoffrey Fitzpiers Of Essex, b. Bef 1163, Saffron Walden, Essex, England d. 14 Oct 1213, Shouldham Priory, Downham, Norfolk, England (Age 50 years) |
| | 2. Petronelle Fitzpiers De Lutegareshale, b. Abt 1162, Shere Farmbridge, Essex, England d. Aft 17 Oct 1198 (Age 36 years) |
|
| Family ID |
F31038 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
| Last Modified |
2 Mar 2009 |
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| Notes |
- Maud [mother of Geoffrey Fitz Peter (or Piers), wife of Piers de Lutegareshale], Lady of Costow, co. Wilts. [Ancestral Roots]
Maud de Mandeville [daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville by Rohese de Vere]; married (1) Piers de Lutegareshale; married (2) Hugh de Boclande, living 1176. [Magna Charta Sureties]
Note: I have reversed the order of marriage which MCS has, because it certainly makes more sense according to the birthdates of the children. Both of Maud's husbands lived to be fairly old, making it very difficult, even doubtful, if she married both. I note that Ancestral Roots did not name her Maud de Mandeville (I think that the citation implies a prior marriage to someone from Costow, Wiltshire (possibly Hugh de Boclande?)), and that, according to Burke's Peerage, Geoffrey Fitz Piers did not use his mother's relationship to claim the Earldom of Essex. He used his wife, Beatrice de Say's descendancy from Beatrice de Mandeville sister of Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex. Thus, even though MCS clearly states her as Maud de Mandeville, daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville, I have my doubts.
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The following post-em by Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com clears up the reason why Maud was mistaken for a daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville by MCS:
Maud. Widow of Piers de Lutegareshale. Mother of Geoffrey fitz Piers earl of Essex [Ref: CP V:116 Table]
Maud was not a de Mandeville. This error has been discussed several times on Gen-Medieval:
Maud was not intended by this to be represented as Geoffrey's daughter, but this appears to be the genesis of this mistaken affiliation. As has been pointed out, it is clear that Geoffrey Fitz Piers came to hold Mandeville land, as well as the Earldom of Essex, through his wife, who was granddaughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville's sister. This is best seen by the fact that the land and titles descended to Bohun, to the exclusion of Geoffrey's son and male heir, John Fitz Geoffrey, son by a second wife. So, no Mandeville land can be shown to have been held by Piers, or by Geoffrey prior to his marriage; no Mandeville land descended to Geoffrey's (and hence Maud's) heir male; no document has been brought forward which claims Maud, wife of Piers, was a Mandeville; no daughter or sister of an Earl of Essex would have been allowed to marry such a lowly knight as Piers. No, Maud was not a Mandeville. [Ref: TAF 3 Apr 1998]
Maud de Mandeville was not daughter of Geoffrey and Rohese. This comes from a misreading of the chart of Essex in CP. She is placed at the same level as Geoffrey's children, but there is no line connecting her with Geoffrey. Likewise, Piers was a local forester, and never would have been given the daughter of someone of Geoffrey's status. Even if it were true, her children would have been immediately elevated in status, but instead, Geoffrey Fitz Piers had to work his way up through the king's household service. He was a "new man", and not the grandson of an Earl. [Ref: TAF 19 Apr 1998]
TAF = Todd A. Farmerie
Also, Bill Marshall , someone I respect as a very thorough reseacher, lists on WorldConnect at:
http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db= wtm& surname=A
The mother of Geoffrey Fitz Piers was Maud, wife of Piers de Lutegareshale. As far as I have been able to determine, there was never any Maud de Mandeville at this point in the Mandeville pedigree until someone misread CP. I followed back the references cited by Weis/Sheppard Magna Carta Sureties (later repeated in AR7) and they all either say nothing of the sort, or else lead right to the CP Essex article. Nowhere in the text does it mention a Maud other than simply as wife of Piers, and there it does not call her Maud de Mandeville nor provide any evidence of a connection. In the associated chart, (and here's the rub) Piers, Maud, and her second husband are placed under the horizontal line which unites the children of Geoffrey de Mandeville. This would, at first glance, appear to show Maud as Geoffrey's daughter (this applies to Maud, but not Piers or his successor, because Maud is not given a surname). However, a closer look reveals that there is no vertical line dropping down from the horizontal to connect her with Geoffrey: Geoffrey de Mandeville.
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| Sources |
- [S1630] Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis,, 159-2 (Reliability: 3).
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